tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-872647804241988041.post21702104631954749..comments2024-02-08T07:32:20.315-06:00Comments on Steve Bates - Yellow Doggerel Democratic Views: Extraordinary Rendition: It's Not Just A Bush-Cheney ThingSteve Bateshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07587223243120009776noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-872647804241988041.post-38579182259928038182013-10-16T08:36:35.471-05:002013-10-16T08:36:35.471-05:00Thanks for the clarification, 'noz. The whole ...Thanks for the clarification, 'noz. The whole FISA court thing makes me nervous as hell, and I can't help thinking it is intended to do so... to make American citizens nervous as hell. Circumventing the Bill of Rights implies a certain contempt for them, and they shouldn't be doing it no matter what. If "al-Liby" is in fact a terrorist, they'd have no trouble obtaining a conviction without screwing with constitutional rights.Steve Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587223243120009776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-872647804241988041.post-62691212791845346972013-10-16T08:31:19.320-05:002013-10-16T08:31:19.320-05:00I agree it's not just. It's just not what ...I agree it's not just. It's just not what I thought of what "extraordinary rendition" is supposed to mean. My impression of the term is that it means sending a person to a third country for torture rather than delivering that person to the U.S. court system.<br /><br />What they did to "al-Liby" (aside: I hate how they use that name, by the way. It just means "the Libyan". Just about anyone they grab from Libya can be called "al-Liby") was keep him out of the regular judicial system for 10 days so they could question him without any constitutional rights. Then the military interrogators lefft, they Mirandaized him, and FBI agents questioned him using the regular legal protections.<br /><br />Now that he is in federal court, he has been appointed defense counsel. I just used my special lawyer powers to pull up the court docket. It is case number 1:98-cr-01023-LAK-21 (SDNY) and the names of his attorneys are David E. Patton and Sabrina P. Shroff, both with the office of the Federal Defenders of NY.upyernozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13468075957480441353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-872647804241988041.post-58320597719761822602013-10-15T17:40:33.480-05:002013-10-15T17:40:33.480-05:00'noz, what is "ordinary" about omitt...'noz, what is "ordinary" about omitting to read a defendant his Miranda rights before interrogating him? and especially what is ordinary about refusing to offer to provide counsel for his defense? It may not be torture, but IMHO (IANAL) it isn't justice, either.Steve Bateshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07587223243120009776noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-872647804241988041.post-63633614246329943222013-10-15T14:12:16.930-05:002013-10-15T14:12:16.930-05:00Was this a case of extraordinary rendition? He was...Was this a case of extraordinary rendition? He wasn't snatched and held indefinitely in some black site. He was snatched and turned over to the civilian justice system (albeit after 10 days in the military's custody on a ship in international waters). I thought the whole idea of extraordinary rendition is that the person in question <i>was not</i> turned over the the American court system and instead was handed over (i.e. "rendered") to some third party state so it could torture that person using methods that the U.S. was not willing to do itself.upyernozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13468075957480441353noreply@blogger.com